From ac89f58d25839e76ec8f8ef14b1e109c06abf687 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: jorts Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2025 18:57:36 +0100 Subject: [PATCH] added stop and go method --- docs/index.md | 15 +- ...soyct-github-io__index-html__2a460b067b.md | 150 +++++++ ...cal_use_of_estrogel_as_a___a51ac6f9eb.html | 389 ++++++++++++++++++ ...ke_the_stopandgo_is_also___7e8308772e.html | 99 +++++ 4 files changed, 651 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) create mode 100644 docs/sources/ihsoyct-github-io__index-html__2a460b067b.md create mode 100644 docs/sources/old-reddit-com__r-estrogel-comments-gqsh2g-a_practical_use_of_estrogel_as_a___a51ac6f9eb.html create mode 100644 docs/sources/old-reddit-com__r-estrogel-comments-jjvwqr-looks_like_the_stopandgo_is_also___7e8308772e.html diff --git a/docs/index.md b/docs/index.md index 0b5117e..167377a 100644 --- a/docs/index.md +++ b/docs/index.md @@ -257,9 +257,20 @@ Todo: add more info here. ## Breast Growth -#### Adifyline +#### Adifyline and Volufiline + +See sections above + +#### Stop and Go method + +Some people have considered stopping estrogen temporarily, then restarting is, as a method to try to "reduce estrogen sensitivity". + +This person tried it and it seemed to work for them: + +* [Original post on stop and go method](https://old.reddit.com/r/estrogel/comments/gqsh2g/a_practical_use_of_estrogel_as_a_topical_to/){.source-link} + +* [Follow up post claiming it now endorsed by Dr. Powers](https://old.reddit.com/r/estrogel/comments/jjvwqr/looks_like_the_stopandgo_is_also_endorsed_read/){.source-link} -See section above #### Progesterone diff --git a/docs/sources/ihsoyct-github-io__index-html__2a460b067b.md b/docs/sources/ihsoyct-github-io__index-html__2a460b067b.md new file mode 100644 index 0000000..9308f18 --- /dev/null +++ b/docs/sources/ihsoyct-github-io__index-html__2a460b067b.md @@ -0,0 +1,150 @@ +*Archived 2025-08-06 17:53 UTC from https://ihsoyct.github.io/index.html?backend=artic_shift&mode=comments&author=Gloomy-Scarcity-2197&limit=100&sort=desc&body=adifyline* + +# Comments by u/Gloomy-Scarcity-2197 • containing 'adifyline' + +**/r/DIYaesthetics/comments/1gt4n3m/adifyline_purchasingvolume_guide/mkkr7so/** +https://reddit.com/r/DIYaesthetics/comments/1gt4n3m/adifyline_purchasingvolume_guide/mkkr7so/ + +u/Gloomy-Scarcity-2197 • 1 points • 2025-03-30 20:28 UTC • r/DIYaesthetics + +Good in both myself and my partner. She was lacking fat development more than I was and she saw visible increases in a month of usage in both face and breasts. Not dream-result, but significant. + +I saw smaller but still perceptible changes. The biggest difference was on the backs of my hands. + +We're both trans-feminine and I'm on the chunk side while she's skinny. + +I ended up using LotionCrafter as it comes a little bit more finished than AliBaba. Mixed 1ml of Adifyline with 1ml of Vasoline Cocoa Glow (mixing up about 20ml at a time). Applied to face, breasts and any leftovers to backs of hands. + +--- + +**/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1j3t3rt/what_can_i_do_next_routine_in_comments/mg2yz6d/** +https://reddit.com/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1j3t3rt/what_can_i_do_next_routine_in_comments/mg2yz6d/ + +u/Gloomy-Scarcity-2197 • 1 points • 2025-03-05 02:55 UTC • r/45PlusSkincare + +These photos are only about a month apart. The big change is I actually started sticking to my routine instead of once a fortnight. + +I also let ChatGPT's research mode pair up skincare products with some of my medications and other goals. It may have been overkill but I actually understand what everything is doing now and have some plans to expand it. It also reminds me morning and night what I need to do :) + +The biggest practical change seems to be that my skin is healing and thickening resulting in a more even colour tone. + +Morning + +* Cleanse with Garnier PureActive +* Adifyline +* The Ordinary Multi-peptides with copper (this is new) +* The Ordinary Hyaluronic acid +* The Ordinary Vitamin C suspension 23% with HA spheres (this is new) +* The Ordinary Niacinamide +* Moisturise with Vasoline Cocoa Glow +* La Roche-Posay Antihelios if I'm going outside or will be in the sun at all + +Night + +* Cleanse +* Adifyline +* Multi-peptide +* Tretinoin +* Moisturise + +I'm planning on getting a Derminator soon, and I'm also thinking about DMSO+Tret for areas of body skin that are too thick to achieve any structural changes. + +At some point I'll also try out C60 Buckyballs as they seem to be anti-aging magic or something. + +My main peeve at the moment is something the photo didn't manage to capture - there's tiny soft freckles all over my face but they're not distinct enough to be freckles so I just kind of look not washed in the wrong light. Any other suggestions on how to handle that? + +--- + +**/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1ijzb9h/help_i_think_tretinoin_is_creating_lines_wrinkles/mc2nlb1/** +https://reddit.com/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1ijzb9h/help_i_think_tretinoin_is_creating_lines_wrinkles/mc2nlb1/ + +u/Gloomy-Scarcity-2197 • 2 points • 2025-02-10 20:29 UTC • r/45PlusSkincare + +>I'll be retesting with the tret soon so that's that covered. + +You can't "test" this stuff any more than you already have. Either you commit to using it for the required period to actually see a difference or don't bother I guess. You won't see decent results until you've used it for a couple of years consistently. + +>The adifyline I'll test on the cheeks and may be around the forehead then see how it's going. + +That isn't how that works either unfortunately. Your face will absorb it and it'll put the fat where your genetics said you should have had it as a teenager. The good news is that's everywhere that makes you look healthy and young. + +--- + +**/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1ijzb9h/help_i_think_tretinoin_is_creating_lines_wrinkles/mbyhh71/** +https://reddit.com/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1ijzb9h/help_i_think_tretinoin_is_creating_lines_wrinkles/mbyhh71/ + +u/Gloomy-Scarcity-2197 • 1 points • 2025-02-10 03:25 UTC • r/45PlusSkincare + +Now we're talking. + +How long ago did you lose the weight? This looks like classic ozempic (or any other rapid weight loss) face. It takes a couple of years but your skin will tighten up in certain ways. Tret helps that happen faster (skin cell cycling + adds a ton of fresh collagen and elastin). + +For the rest, you can definitely look at adifyline to cover some bases as well. + +As I've said a few times, no single thing is the entire solution, but each thing gets you noticeably closer. As long as you're not expecting magic, it can happen. + +As you're a cis man, I'd also probably add a weak estrogen topical cream to that, but you need to be *very* careful here, as yes, misuse or not understanding dosages can cause breast buds to develop and not just softer skin. r/drwillpowers has mentioned his personal concoction a few times, and you can buy your own Estradiol Valerate from grey-market sites and carefully make your own lotion. + +--- + +**/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1ijzb9h/help_i_think_tretinoin_is_creating_lines_wrinkles/mbwimqr/** +https://reddit.com/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1ijzb9h/help_i_think_tretinoin_is_creating_lines_wrinkles/mbwimqr/ + +u/Gloomy-Scarcity-2197 • 2 points • 2025-02-09 21:00 UTC • r/45PlusSkincare + +My weight moved around rather than losing any. Estrogen definitely helped in that regard, and it's known for seeming to wind back age a bit, but it's not nearly as effective in that regard as adifyline, with the main bonus being adifyline doesn't make you become a woman if you're a cis-gendered man. + +There's about ten major factors in everyone's age appearance rather than just one or two. + +I'm just hitting that age where I *should* be showing signs of aging and I've carefully addressed all of the sub-issues. Estrogen is just one of the things I had available to me. + +Given that adifyline is relatively cheap, and topical (so it's easy and non-invasive to use) and *fast* I'd always say try that for a couple of months first. + +--- + +**/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1ijzb9h/help_i_think_tretinoin_is_creating_lines_wrinkles/mbr6821/** +https://reddit.com/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1ijzb9h/help_i_think_tretinoin_is_creating_lines_wrinkles/mbr6821/ + +u/Gloomy-Scarcity-2197 • 2 points • 2025-02-09 00:32 UTC • r/45PlusSkincare + +I mean, time matters. Start everything you should be doing NOW. + +Tret is the minimum, so it's good you're doing it, but there are other options you can try too. + +In the end, men age with a fair amount of dignity and you seem to be doing really well. I don't see any real negatives going on here, but if you MUST look young, search reddit or my post history for Adifyline. + +--- + +**/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1ijlh6h/estradiol_vaginal_cream/mblzglu/** +https://reddit.com/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1ijlh6h/estradiol_vaginal_cream/mblzglu/ + +u/Gloomy-Scarcity-2197 • 3 points • 2025-02-08 04:53 UTC • r/45PlusSkincare + +My experience has been that if you already have estrogen in your system, this won't really help much. + +I have heard of men using a weak estradiol face cream to some effect, but if you have any amount of estrogen in you at all you're probably already getting the full benefit of it. + +It's a little new, but look into acetyl hexapeptide-38 (also known as adifyline) as a topical treatment for what you're trying to do. I used my hands to apply it to my face and after about a month both showed pretty good improvement. This peptide likes to stimulate fat rejuvenation in places that juvenile humans normally only have it, and it winds the clock back pretty good in some aspects like sagging and overall wrinkling from slack skin. + +--- + +**/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1h5i4kv/is_there_anything_i_should_work_on_47f/m08q41q/** +https://reddit.com/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1h5i4kv/is_there_anything_i_should_work_on_47f/m08q41q/ + +u/Gloomy-Scarcity-2197 • 1 points • 2024-12-03 18:52 UTC • r/45PlusSkincare + +Adifyline from lotioncrafter + +--- + +**/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1h5i4kv/is_there_anything_i_should_work_on_47f/m08q1xl/** +https://reddit.com/r/45PlusSkincare/comments/1h5i4kv/is_there_anything_i_should_work_on_47f/m08q1xl/ + +u/Gloomy-Scarcity-2197 • 2 points • 2024-12-03 18:51 UTC • r/45PlusSkincare + +Lotioncrafter sell it. I mix it with 1 pump of moisturiser to every 1ml of serum and apply the same amount to each region I'm treating morning and night (apparently it also causes breast plumping so I use it there as well). + +On their site it's called adifyline. I searched around for clinical studies and only found one. + +--- + diff --git a/docs/sources/old-reddit-com__r-estrogel-comments-gqsh2g-a_practical_use_of_estrogel_as_a___a51ac6f9eb.html b/docs/sources/old-reddit-com__r-estrogel-comments-gqsh2g-a_practical_use_of_estrogel_as_a___a51ac6f9eb.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000..31106ff --- /dev/null +++ b/docs/sources/old-reddit-com__r-estrogel-comments-gqsh2g-a_practical_use_of_estrogel_as_a___a51ac6f9eb.html @@ -0,0 +1,389 @@ + + + + + +
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+ 📄 Archived: 2025-08-06 17:53:56 UTC +
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+ 🔗 Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/estrogel/comments/gqsh2g/a_practical_use_of_estrogel_as_a_topical_to/ +
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A practical use of estrogel: as a topical to resume breast growth

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r/estrogel • by u/darthemofan • 26 points

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According to studies, the average results are pretty sad: 90% of trans women in Europe don't reach an A cup. The median result is a AAA cup:

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" Mean breast-chest difference increased to 7.9 ± 3.1 cm after 1 year of CHT, mainly resulting in less than an AAA cup size (48.7%). Main breast development occurred in the first 6 months of therapy. Serum estradiol levels did not predict breast development after 1 year of CHT (first quartile, 3.6 cm [95% confidence interval (CI), 2.7 to 4.5], second quartile, 3.2 cm [95% CI, 2.3 to 4.2], third quartile, 4.4 cm [95% CI, 3.5 to 5.3], and fourth quartile, 3.6 cm [95% CI, 2.7 to 4.5])"

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The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, Volume 103, Issue 2, February 2018, Pages 532–538, https://doi.org/10.1210/jc.2017-01927

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Most of the growth happen in the first 6 month. We know from the various research from the /r/MTFHRT sub crew that only E2 is necessary. Supplementing E2 by GH, IGF1, and secretagogues like ibutamoren/MK667 have no effect.

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Even worse, using P is counter productive: it inhibit the roles of E2, even when both are used topically on the breast, while E2 alone increase the number of cell differentiation

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Influences of percutaneous administration of estradiol and progesterone on human breast epithelial cell cycle in vivo, Fertility and Sterility Volume 63, Issue 4, April 1995, Pages 785-791 +https://doi.org/10.1016/S0015-0282(16)57482-2 :

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"Increased E2 concentration increases the number of cycling epithelial cells. Increased P concentration significantly decreases the number of cycling epithelial cells." +"Exposure to P for 10 to 13 days reduces E2-induced proliferation of normal breast epithelial cells in vivo"

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Estradiol and Progesterone Regulate the Proliferation of Human Breast Epithelial Cells, Fertility and Sterility Volume 69, Issue 5, May 1998, Pages 963-969 +https://doi.org/10.1016/S0015-0282(98)00042-9

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"Daily topical application to both breasts of a gel containing a placebo, estradiol, progesterone, or a combination of estradiol and progesterone during the 14 days preceding esthetic breast surgery or excision of a benign lesion" +"Increasing the estradiol concentration enhanced the number of cycling epithelial cells, whereas increasing the progesterone concentration significantly limited the number of cycling epithelial cells." +"Exposure to progesterone for 14 days reduced the estradiol-induced proliferation of normal breast epithelial cells in vivo."

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A lot of people, including myself, believe P may lead to final differentiation of the breast tissue to be able to produce milk, giving a little grow spurt, then limiting the possibility of further growth

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So why do people report soreness but little to no growth when using topical estrogel, directly on the breast, even for 3 months straight like in today "My experience applying estrogen gel directly to breasts over 3 months (self.TransDIY)" ? /r/TransDIY/comments/gqdvfj/my_experience_applying_estrogen_gel_directly_to/

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I have proposed a simple theory of breast growth a few months ago on /r/MtF/comments/fcjqbi/experimental_restarting_breast_growth_long_maybe/ , where growth does not depend on blood levels and in fact give high blood level a negative role, where only the growth in time of blood levels matters: for example, from 1 to 2 = +1, from 1 to 1 = +0 = no growth ; from 1 to 2 to 3 : +1 and +1 growth, etc), and where stalled growth can be resumed by going cold turkey for a while to resensitize or downregulate the estrogen receptors (using estrogel on the face to prevent collagen and subcutaneous fat loss)

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I recently submitted it to MTFHRT but it was rejected, as it is original research instead of a meta analysis +/r/MtFHRTsubmissions/comments/g7nfhj/a_simple_feedback_mechanism_to_explain_brain/

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I think it was fair, since until this week, it was incomplete, as I didn't have any place for the role of soreness if only to connect it to something. After reading this report, and other things in the /r/steroids sub, I now believe soreness or other well known manifestations like enlarged nipples reported by bodybuilders juicing on T (out of which a small part get aromatased away in E) are a necessary but not sufficient condition: it just indicates that cells are starting to proliferate, but not that they will survive and stay.

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This is based on a simple fact that bodybuilders and people who experiment with hormones during their questioning or detransition know very well: as long as the growth was recent, it is not "consolidated" and most of it can melt away when stopping hormones.

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Given what we know on the effect of topical E that put more cells into mitosis very quickly, it means that something else must happen to obtain this consolidation.

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With my theory on the increase of levels, I suggest that it is the continuous increase that "locks" some of this growth, meaning the second derivative must also be positive.

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Said differently, if you have a continuous stable dose of 1,1,1,1, the difference is +0,+0,+0 meaning no growth.

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If if you increase this dose once it will be 1,1,2,2, the difference +0,+1,+0 but the second derivative ++1, --1: there will be some soreness that will go away

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If you increase as I thought, little by little, following the pattern 1,2,3,4, the difference will be +1,+1,+1 and the second derivative ++0, ++0: there will be some soreness but likewise it will go away.

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However, a pattern of 1,2,4,7 would give a difference of +1, +2, +3 with a second derivative ++1, ++1 : the growth will be locked, and it will not go away

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(the number here do not represent true doses or blood levels, they are just number to illustrate the math using addition and substration that you can do in your head given the very simple numbers chosen)

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Then you will ask, "but why did I get some growth during my transition?" : because you had very little estrogen receptors at first, during HRT, an initial upregulation increased their number, making it equivalent to increasing doses.

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Eventually, the number stabilizes. So you need to stop cold turkey for a while, as suggested by the stop and go theory to downregulate the receptors (the stop phase), then resume HRT (the go phase) while augmenting slightly the dose of E2 until you feel some soreness, then at this point augment not linearly but geometrically every now and then, to lock these gains.

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So it's not just a stop and go theory, but more like a stop and go then pedal to the metal when you start to feel the pain!

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Unfortunately, we don't know when to do this acceleration (every day? week? month?), but given what we know on research on most of the growth happening in the first 6 months, we can extrapolate that you have to augment as much as possible during these 6 months or 24 weeks. It is not possible to double every week, and every month would still mean doubling 6 times which is not really practical either. But that's the spirit!

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This is very early work. The only reason I'm making this post is to explain the project that drove me to consider brewing estrogel at home: continuing my self experiment that was stopped during the pandemic. Today, reading that other people did similar self experiments inspired me to share my revised theory, in the hope it can be helpful to anyone.

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Hopefully, it will inspire other people who want to self experiment. If I could still gain half a cup, even with my lousy protocol from an incomplete theory, while on top of that getting interrupted too early by lack of estrogel, I'm sure you can do better!

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A fair warning: E2 increase the risks of breast cancer, but for all we know, this risk is a function of the cumulative dose received during life, and the breast volume. If you started transition even 5 years ago, there is very little risk especially if you didn't get much growth- like say a 20y old woman. Don't do that if you have DD then again, I don't think you'll want to experiment getting more volume lol

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There is no such thing as 0 risk, but I feel comfortable experimenting on myself, and I wanted to let you all know about the risks if you want to follow and do the same.

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Comments

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+ u/inconceivium • 4 points +
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If this is the case then how do you explain women who get good growth and satisfactory results with consistent levels?

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+ u/2d4d_data • 2 points +
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Of course you have to define "consistent levels" I think only certain brands of patches are able to deliver anything close to "consistent levels", everything else has peeks and troffs.

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+ u/darthemofan • 4 points +
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that, and either:

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  • 1) they are the rare lucky persons that would have otherwise gotten great growth / too much to the point of requiring a reduction (this exist, and the lack of such cases in mtfs suggests we're doing something wrong)

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  • or 2) there're many other things at play that they did right by accident, as it's not clear yet what's the role of physical exercice (seems good), AA (seems good before HRT, bad during HRT), P (seems bad)

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+ u/[deleted] • 4 points +
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If you increase as I thought, little by little...

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GH, IGF1, and secretagogues like ibutamoren/MK667 have no effect.

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I don't mean to come in and undermine everything you're saying here, as I do think you're making some interesting points here, and would like to see this stuff further flushed out, but allow me to play devil's advocate, as someone who's had significantly different results.

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I'm 30 years old, 5 foot 8 inches tall, 140 pounds, and started HRT 11 months ago (July 1, 2019), using the "slow and steady" method - starting with a daily dose of 100mg Spiro and 2mg oral EV before switching to sublingual/buccal a few weeks later, then increased to 4mg EV sublingual at the 2 month mark (Sept. 1, '19), and upped again to 6mg EV sublingual after another 4 months (Dec. 29, '19), and have done my best to maintain my levels by taking it spread out evenly throughout the day, every day. I've also cycled on-and-off MK-677/Ibutamoren twice since the beginning of this year, taking 10mg/day for a one month cycle each time, then going a month without it.

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I started out with an undeniably masculine figure - flat as a board, with no curves or hips and a very intense, masculine face. Now, with a good shave (can't wait until lockdown's over and I can start laser again!!!), I'm not just passable - I'm actually pretty hot. My face has softened up nicely, and I now look nearly indistinguishable from younger pictures of my mother. While my mom and sisters all wear around a 36C bra size, I'm currently wearing a size 34B. I may not have kept measurements or know what any of my values have been along the way, but the perceived results have been very consistent from the start, with constant soreness/tenderness and undeniable growth. The curves have been slowly forming the whole time, but I didn't start getting any noticeable hip growth until my first cycle on MK-677 (likely due to my age, therefore decreased natural GH levels raised back up by MK-677), with more it becoming even more noticeable on the second cycle. I've also perceived more constant feelings of tenderness and growth in my breasts when cycling on the MK-677, and they seemed to be filling out more while I was taking it than while I haven't been (but the growth and fullness has all remained).

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I'll never claim that it'd work for everyone, but this "slow and steady" system seems to have worked well for me so far, as has the Ibutamoren. I'd certainly be interested, however, in seeing some hard data on both methods presented side-by-side, and could absolutely believe that cycling on-and-off of E2, as you have described, could be helpful for women who have stalled in their progress after having taken a steady dosage for a time.

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+ u/darthemofan • 3 points +
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I think your slow and steady helped. This is just a slight change over it: when slow and steady stop working, it's time to put pedal to the metal.

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Also, I think the splitting of doses help, for some unknown reasons (maybe we need tight oscilliations of the blood levels? pill cutters seem to have better results. It could also be a spurrious correlation as ppl won't bother splitting pills unless they are well versed in the various theories, meaning they may make other good choices we don't understand yet, like say take vitamin D or something that turns out to be very helpful)

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Ibutamoren may have been just a coincidence. Lots of people have tried different regimen (up to shooting GH!). Or maybe these things can help, but only if some prerequisites are met, so there is an active growth phase.

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The theory is mostly to help people who have stalled growth. It makes predictions on how it could also work at the beginning of transition, but I think it's better to play it safe and reserve experimental methods to when growth stalls

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+ u/EleventyB_throws • 2 points +
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ehhh, i dunno. i titrated up from 2mg oral E, then to 4mg buccal, split 3-4x daily, then to 6mg buccal, split 3-4x daily all over a period of 9 months. I'm at a year, still on 6mg split 2/1/1/2.

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Was on spiro till month 1.5, switchted to Dutasteride for the next 1.5 months, then on to bica. I dropped bica at about month 10 when I was sure my T was at or below 33 ng and is still near there.

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I had some nice initial growth at about month four, and then they just stopped. they never stopped being sore, but i've had no growth in 8 months :/

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I did just get switched to injections (depo) and have the vial, but haven't injected myself yet

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+ u/darthemofan • 2 points +
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you should, lot of ppl report growth when changing method.

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as to what you said, getting growth when doubling from 2 to 4 is expected. maybe if you had doubled again to 8 or even 9 it would have kept going for a while?

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the core idea is to take a break, and restart from scratch. there is not much to lose

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+ u/EleventyB_throws • 2 points +
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What do you mean by taking a break? I don't want to not take E for any appreciable length of time :(

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+ u/darthemofan • 2 points +
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What do you mean by taking a break? I don't want to not take E for any appreciable length of time :(

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And that reaction that a lot of us may instinctively have may be exactly why no one has tried that before, while it got me results.

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+ u/EleventyB_throws • 2 points +
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how long a break do you take?

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+ u/darthemofan • 3 points +
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we don't exactly know yet. Greater than 2 weeks, for sure. Could be about 1 month, to downregulate the receptors.

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A bit like how you need to go cold turkey when you need too high doses of alcohol to get drunk/drugs to get high: you take a break, and it reboots your sensitivity

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+ u/EleventyB_throws • 2 points +
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I can only imagine the mood swings and remasculinization :/

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+ u/darthemofan • 5 points +
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I can only imagine the mood swings and remasculinization :/

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Which may be exactly why not a lot of people have tried that. IDGAF I only care about results.

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You can use a low amount of estrogen on you face, and AA if needed.

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Worked for me, 1/2 cup in the first cycle.

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10/10 will do again lol

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+ u/[deleted] • 2 points +
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when slow and steady stop working, it's time to put pedal to the metal

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I'm with ya. Sounds like a reasonable idea, and worth trying for those who've stalled.

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different regimen (up to shooting GH!)

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Whoa... I definitely wouldn't advise that. It's an extremely bitter, acid-tasting powder, usually sold from questionable sources, and I imagine it would probably burn like a motherfucker when injected. That really doesn't sound pleasant.

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+ u/darthemofan • 2 points +
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That really doesn't sound pleasant.

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Good thing then that we know it doesn't work!

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+ u/EleventyB_throws • 2 points +
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do you exercise? there's a theory that increased GH helps a lot with transition

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+ u/[deleted] • 3 points +
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Nope. Not anymore than I have to. That's why I was cycling the MK-677, to (theoretically) stimulate GH production.

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+ u/2d4d_data • 4 points +
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During the first 6 months of HRT I was on only 2mg (NO AA) of E2 split across the day. It might sound consistent, but it wasn't all because it caused my E2 levels to rise and fall many times every day. Further When I started I was taking it once a day, then splitting to twice a day until at six months 8 times a day like this: https://imgur.com/a/bKILU For my anecdote I am currently a 34D/34DD. My full regimen is here: https://www.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/7mznr9/mtf_results_from_using_2mgday_oral_estradiol/ which you can compare to the breast development data during that time period: https://www.reddit.com/user/2d4d_data/comments/ciqkjh/2_years_breast_development/

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There was an anecdote about using estradiol valerate over estradiol depo because it would cause soreness. Valerate causes higher highs and lower lows. Is there any sort of connection?

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You can easily generate generate experiments from your theory.

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  • How about comparing the results of those who take estradiol valerate to estradiol depo?
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  • How about cycling e2, the number of times a day it is taken, starting with 1 and ramping up. (over what time period?)
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  • How about cycling e2, the amount, starting with 1mg and working up to 8mg (over what time period?)
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  • How about cycling your P?
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Some questions:

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  • How long does it take to upregulate or downregulate? Is this known?
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  • How does P's incredibly short half life play into this? I do it once a day, but honestly I know it is mostly gone by morning so it is whipping up and down daily.
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+ u/darthemofan • 2 points +
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Thanks, that's very interesting!

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I think we don't fully know everything and we're missing something. During my transition, I also got better results when I increased the doses not just in 1 taking per day, but dividing that to 2 and rarely 3 applications of gel per day. I didn't think it mattered much, especially given the 6h half life. But it must also have produced some tight oscillations. Maybe there's an oscilliation pattern that prevents the increase of SHBG, by keeping the moving average low, while giving quick peaks that cells seems to like?

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And yeah, the theory makes predictions. It'd be better to do that double blind to avoid biases, but here are the prediction if you want to check how it compares to what you've seen on transdiy:

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  • How about comparing the results of those who take estradiol valerate to estradiol depo?: valerate should give more peaks, depo more steady, so worse results

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  • How about cycling e2, the number of times a day it is taken, starting with 1 and ramping up. (over what time period?) : it should give better results that constant doses during the geometrical growth phase, then will stop when the 2nd derivates reach its peak as you can't double up much after reaching 8mg/day. Other prediction: people who cut pills and take them several time per day SL should get better results

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  • How about cycling e2, the amount, starting with 1mg and working up to 8mg (over what time period?) : same as above, unfortunately the time period is unknown. As most result usually happen in 6 month, we could use that to suggest 6 month.

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  • How about cycling your P? : Any P should give a final bump, then have negative effects

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  • How long does it take to upregulate or downregulate? : we don't know but we could study bodybuilders cycling regimen to infer some safe default to start with

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  • How does P's incredibly short half life play into this? I do it once a day, but honestly I know it is mostly gone by morning so it is whipping up and down daily : it should not play any role one way or the other. It helps the maturation to be able to produce milk, but seems to have a negative effect on growth

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+ u/2d4d_data • 2 points +
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How does P's incredibly short half life play into this? I do it once a day, but honestly I know it is mostly gone by morning so it is whipping up and down daily : it should not play any role one way or the other. It helps the maturation to be able to produce milk, but seems to have a negative effect on growth

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On my 2 year breast development link at least in my anecdotal data it is clear after switching to progesterone rectally I had bump and a steady filling out through year 3 without a negative effect on growth

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+ u/darthemofan • 2 points +
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Personally I see an inflection point in the curve, so you may have had a negative effect.

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+ u/2d4d_data • 2 points +
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I'll post up a 3 year graph next month, but I can tell you now that the graph has continued up and to the right all this past year.

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I try to be consistent with where the tape measure is, but honestly month to month there is bounce. What matters is over time results as the lying bust has continued to move up to where the standing and leaning bust are as they fill out.

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+ u/darthemofan • 2 points +
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thanks; it means that measurements when lying down should be my preferred metric on my next experiment

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+ u/LongDiscount5950 • 1 points +
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I don’t understand this post but I would like to just know if using estrogel in a 33F can increase breast growth?

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diff --git a/docs/sources/old-reddit-com__r-estrogel-comments-jjvwqr-looks_like_the_stopandgo_is_also___7e8308772e.html b/docs/sources/old-reddit-com__r-estrogel-comments-jjvwqr-looks_like_the_stopandgo_is_also___7e8308772e.html new file mode 100644 index 0000000..c42b33b --- /dev/null +++ b/docs/sources/old-reddit-com__r-estrogel-comments-jjvwqr-looks_like_the_stopandgo_is_also___7e8308772e.html @@ -0,0 +1,99 @@ + + + + + +
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+ 📄 Archived: 2025-08-06 17:55:10 UTC +
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+ 🔗 Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/estrogel/comments/jjvwqr/looks_like_the_stopandgo_is_also_endorsed_read/ +
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Looks like the stop-and-go is also """endorsed""" (read: plagiarized without attribution) by Powers now!

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r/estrogel • by u/darthemofan • 16 points

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Look at /r/DrWillPowers/comments/jj55qj/patients_from_germany/gac4o9f/

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Without knowing a lot of details here, I can tell you that what I would probably do is pull you off hormones entirely. I would do a system reset. Just let your body reset itself and then start over with estradiol orally and bicalutamide. That's typically what I do for patients in your situation

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Hmm, stopping hormones for a while to do a system reset? I wonder where he got the idea from? /s

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But wait, it gets better. You know how recently we adjusted the length to 2 weeks?

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From /r/DrWillPowers/comments/jj55qj/patients_from_germany/gadd7uu/

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I don't take people off for months. Just like a week or two.

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As for the adrenal hypothesis we are now working on?

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Some hidden androgen that your adrenal glands are making That is inhibiting breast development.

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I have a crystal ball that told me that we we refine the andrenal protocol and drug regimen to spiro and/or dxm /r/estrogel/comments/jfehly/proposed_protocol_for_high_tdht_or_signs_of/ and figure a safe dose, they will suddenly be endorsed by powers too :)

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TBH, I couldn't care less about plagiarism without attribution. It's a fact of life, it's how things generally work online.

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What I have a problem with, is when a for-profit-doctor who's running huge banners on their youtube commercials Q and A (not even FFS surgeons dare do that!!) makes $ERIOU$ BU$INE$$ (700 person waitlist... r/DrWillPowers/comments/jgvfaw/the_waiting_list_finally_starts_moving_on_monday/) on methods taken straight from the community, while pretending otherwise /r/estrogel/comments/jcxpw2/there_is_no_such_thing_as_powers_dht_mutants_just/g95vjbg/ and dissing alternatives, like calling safe penetration enhancer "illicit" https://youtu.be/k4X5XVcdvqA?t=4673 and instead promoting unsafe tricks straight from the drug user community /r/researchchemicals/comments/aiz7k8/using_dmso_as_a_roa/ like using 10% DMSO /r/DrWillPowers/wiki/compounded-medicines

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And what a class act: charging $300 extra every year on top of the consultation fee for uninsured out-of-state patients, then bitching about having to answer patients questions (most doctors do that and don't complain), while pinpointing one very special case of a demanding patient as if it was normal /r/DrWillPowers/comments/jjw57s/this_is_why_there_is_a_300_out_of_state_fee/ ... omg omg omg

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People making money is good. People nickel and diming the trans community, based on the despair borne from the abysmal incompetence of most doctors is bad.

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And it doesn't stop there. It comes with unforeseeable consequences. Like pushing Boron did lead some people to try to eat Borax /r/DrWillPowers/comments/hpzfve/alternatives_to_boron_there_is_none_in_my_country/fxux9xe/ instead of using safer methods to help with their transition!!!

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Even if I have a very wild imagination, I would have never guessed that one day, people would try to eat soap to get better HRT results, and suggest others to do the same, and I would need to tell someone "do not eat soap" not as part of a jole, but in a dead serious tone... So now I'm worried that this """endorsement""" will lead people to try equally stupid things...

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Please don't improvise. Keep it simple. What we believe atm is that 2 weeks may be enough: /r/estrogel/comments/j7f5oi/resuming_stalled_growth_with_the_stopandgo_how/

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Before, I was suggesting 1 months, as I did that and got results. Some people like /u/gillian12334 did a 3 months stop and also experience extra fat redistribution /r/estrogel/comments/jexvqu/another_confirmation_of_results_from_the/ga5hbca/?context=3 - something I didn't get with just 1 month. We are still working on to improve the method, but we will not disclose early results in a "fake leak" /r/DrWillPowers/comments/h8yn21/early_leak_of_some_v_70_powerpoint_changes_the/ until we can confirm them. This is because we accept the risks that come with self experimenting, as we are voluntary guinea pigs. But you should never be.

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So people, plz be safe. And remember the only person that will have to support the consequences of what is "prescribed" to you to people with medical degree will be... you. Inform yourself. Knowledge is more than half the battle. Knowledge is power.

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BTW, about DMSO, even in the very moot wikipedia you find some warnings (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyl_sulfoxide#Toxicity: "DMSO exposure to developing mouse brains can produce brain degeneration. This neurotoxicity could be detected at doses as low as 0.3 mL/kg, a level exceeded in children exposed to DMSO during bone marrow transplant").

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They are further supported by relatively little and barely known medical journals (/s) like Nature (!!) and PLOS one (!!) cf https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0107447 https://www.nature.com/articles/1705883/ and https://www.nature.com/articles/1703848 ; even if it talks about IV DMSO: "we suggest that there is a need for reassessment of the toxicity of 10% DMSO and detailed re-evaluation of the use of a lesser dose"

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If you consider the 0.3 mL/kg neurotoxicity level, quick math says that all a 130 lbs/60kg person needs .3*60=1.8 milliliter ... in a 10% serum like powers suggest, use 18 ml of said serum, and you may be at risk... check out someday how little 18ml is :(

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Please consider what Powers call our "illicit" methods, like Niaouili Oil (mtf) or Menthol (ftm)...

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Comments

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+ u/gothyloxx • 4 points +
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Powers is a D-bag. If he's not degrading people he's going on a 5,000 word rant about how successful and great and he is the most humble person ever.

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I don't really know about your case here, just wanted to cry about it because 1. Doesn't surprise me 2. Kinda horrified by how little access there is to trans healthcare that his fans back him like what he says is written in stone when he just treats people like trash so often.

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Thanks for all the work yall do on here though. I'd be lost in the sauce without these subs.

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+ u/darthemofan • 3 points +
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I don't really know about your case here

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nothing really. At first like a lot of ppl I though he could be reasoned with. Now I only see him as someone who's bound to cause serious harm to various people and the community itself

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his fans back him like what he says is written in stone

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yeah they're cringy. I rarely do, but after a very vicous PM I said to one of them I didn't want to hear of them anymore for whatever reason.

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Anyway thanks for your encouragements, we're always happy to help. Try to pass it forward any way you can!

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